Archive:Introduction to US History/Justification

Why not the featured US History book

which is found at wikibooks here. [1].

from nearly the opening chapter of the book, what I have found was neither neutral nor easily corrected.

• to start with, the author immediately discounts the major theory on North american settlement; the 'bering land' bridge theory. While it is true that recent scholarship has painted a more complex picture of N american settlement than this 1920's era theory. We do not need to in the words of the talk page; assume that the bering land bridge theory only works if 'million' of siberians cross into america. This is a 'straw man' theory for sure.Indeed recent scholarship has proved that there are undeniable migrations through the bering land bridge.

--Jolie 18:16, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

• • I don't know that such a claim, although evidently incorrect, is properly a "straw man". It is more simply a "false claim", which is not necessarily the same thing. More significantly: Why not simply edit the current Wikibook to be more accurate? The Jade Knight ^(d'viser) 07:23, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

Well, Geo.plrd is quite significant to this discussion and hopefully will come here to discuss. I think HE might have problems with its organization and ability to meet AP US History

But Here is the question. if we start altering the textbook in a way that he doesn't like, he Might feel we are vandals and take administrative action against us. After all He wrote the book and was heavily against the bering strait theory and might not appreciate my edits. All efforts to invite him into the discussion did not work. It feels more natural (although much harder) to offer an "opposing book" when the book you are using seems heavily skewed and not objective. --Jolie 12:47, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Please keep in mind, the material appears abandoned. IF a project author cannot be reached to work out differences with; you are left with two aggresive steps. Either redo material in another forum or rewrite his work. The latter might just be more aggressive. While we are potentially being somewhat offensive to ignore his project altogether. I trust Geo's assessment that the project was very difficult to redeem. It may also be Geo.plrd judgement that training me is better served by my 'rewriting american history' than neccesarily any serious attempt to create a definitive textbook.

we are in new territory here, because normal history courses utilize history books created by panals of accomplished experts. For a Chemist (with little training) To CREATE a history textbook is NOVEL and Unique (CRAZY?). I make no guarentees that my own little researches are the definitive content of a introductory textbook. That is the weakness of this project. So really, Am I making the definitive textbook??? I don't know. I am studying history, trying to be unoffensive, and trying to learn from Geo.plrd. --Jolie 16:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I think your efforts are to be applauded. I simply like to encourage collaboration as much as possible. Yes, it's possible that the author of the previous Wikibook might take issue with your edits (not as vandalism, but simply as "incorrect" in his opinion). But if the book is abandoned, no one would take issue at all. And there is always the possibility that the current author(s) would be willing to work with you to create a better, balanced book. Would that not be worth attempting? The Jade Knight ^(d'viser) 21:42, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Well as I see it, the US History wikibook has evolved into a euro centric general US history textbook. That is what the dynamic appears to be. I think it would be counterproductive to waltz in and attempt to shift the dynamic. Also, we are working on an AP textbook. The College Board has different ideas of topics than what you or I would include. Geo.plrd 05:23, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

I think Geo, that Jade has a point. whatever the dynamic of the history book at WB, the author Clearly INTENDED to meet AP requirements, it's in the introduction. moreover the book is 'featured' meaning its been reviewed and approved (in a limited way at least) with the WB community. This is one reason why I was less than certain that anything should have been started at WB.

Keep in mind, I am trying to reach the author. I will continue to do so.

However, I do think we need to continue the dynamic of writing this point. I'm learning alot, and its a little easier to write my own than change the sometimes off-base text (and reorganize). Even if we make NO textbook for AP but we make a bare-bones lecture notes it will be a great teaching project for me. Perhaps in several years,the course could be redone, and the current WB textbook altered by my writings and researches. We need to keep in mind that even when textbooks are written by experts, rarely are they written by one person, doing a chapter a week, and all in part time. If we get more people, the job of fully doing a textbook with solid well-written language, good references, etc will seem less weighty than it does now. I hope that my work allows people to build off it.

from my point of view, this books biggest errors are bizarre inclusions of material and a biased point of view (one aim of all textbooks is to be neutral and not PICK sides in scientific debates). For now, What I want to do is catalogue irregularities. If the author is found we can go through them point by point. Future attempts to reconcile differences would be served by this as well. --Jolie 12:54, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

Migration of N America

Mayan End of the World

"Furthermore, the Mayan calendar predicts the end of the earth at the Winter Soltice on 21 December 2012, which is similar to Sir Issac Newton's prediction of the end of time in 2060 AD. This prediction was probably arrived at by Mayan Astronomers who observed the near misses of asteroids in their time. "

Reseraches; No, I find no evidence that the mayans knew about asteroids.

• Most definitely Sir Isaac Newton, did NOT know about asteroids although HIS math was used to calculate the next approach of a sizable asteroid; 2060.
• In Fact, I am an amateur astronomer and assure you that the four brightest asteroids are far TOO dim to see with the unaided eye. thus, without the telescope, you would not see them.
• The mayan ended their "long count" calender on Dec 12, 2012. It was one of 17 calenders and we find no real explanations for the end. except the obvious, that one must end a calender somewhere! Since mayan calenders where built in patterns you would expect all copies of the long count calender to end at the same date; just like all copies of your 2008 calender end on Dec 31,2008. because our printed calenders end on Dec 31,2008 does not mean we believe that time will end.
• At any rate, if you say that the mayans predicted the "end of the time" on 2012, you need to attach real proof that the mayans thought this, rather than an untrue assertian that they were studying asteroids.--Jolie 12:31, 21 October 2008 (UTC)